Lockyer Interview: The Brothers on Their New Sound and Leaving Thunder Bay

Latenours: You've been making music together since you were kids. Who wanted to be the musician first?

Charlie: We did piano lessons together for years. Even our older siblings did them, it was a piano fest in that house. I was technically first to start singing lessons, but within a couple of months Will was in there with me.

Will: Mom signed Charlie up and I had to go watch because it was after school. I was like, dang, this is kind of fun. Then one day the teacher asked if I wanted to sing something, and I did Don't Stop Believin'. And Charlie used to charm every dinner guest at the house on piano when he was about eight. My Heart Will Go On, Hello by Adele, all of it. There's a video out there somewhere.

Latenours: Who's older?

Will: Me, I'm 24. Charlie's 22. A lot of people think we're twins, but we're just brothers. We have two much older siblings too, so we were always the little boys of the family. The LBs, they called us.

Latenours: How do your songs get written? Who does what, and who writes the better breakup songs?

Charlie: We divide and conquer. Will is really good at production and can play pretty much any instrument. If I'm looking for something to do, I'll write the words. But we're always taking turns at the desk and co-writing with other people.

Will: A lot of the time Charlie will be alone in bed at night writing something in his notes, send it over, and I'll make music to it the next morning, because I'm a morning person and he's a night person. We live in the same place and barely see each other while we do it. Then we meet up at lunch and go, oh, this is kind of cool, let's keep going.

Charlie: As for breakup songs, there's a very old one called Not Over You that doesn't exist anymore. Primarily written by Will. The OG heartbreaker.

Will: And I'm very proud that it's taken down. That was grade seven heartbreak. We've grown a lot since.

Latenours: Isn't it awkward writing breakup songs together, when it's usually about one person?

Charlie: We don't share the same relationships, that's for sure. There's a lot of separation when we make stuff. I might write a bunch about something, bring it to Will, and it's my story, but he helps package it in a way that actually makes sense.

Will: And we can still relate. It might be about his breakup, but I've been through that too, so let's both hop on it. A lot of songs start with just one of us singing the whole thing, then over time it's like, okay, I relate to this, I'll take the second verse. We're not too weird about it.

Latenours: What's the biggest disagreement you've had over a song?

Lockyer: There's a disagreement somewhere in every song, so we can't rank them. Behind closed doors we're pretty ruthless and very honest. With other people we're pleasant. With each other it's, that sucks, try again. Nobody ever really wins. We just keep going until it works and we both agree it's the best call we can make. It's not about whose idea it is or whose heartbreak it is. We know our similarities and our differences and we play to our strengths.

Latenours: You've been in rooms with Grammy-winning producers since you were teenagers. What's one piece of advice that stuck?

Lockyer: Don't be married to your work. One producer who taught us early was Jeff Dawson, who produced Bad Day back in 2005. We'd send him songs and he'd change them right away. At first you're like, please don't change our stuff. But he changed it for the better. We had this term for it, demo-itis, where you get fixated on the demo, but listeners never hear the demo, only the finished song.

Lockyer: Every big producer we've worked with isn't afraid to move things around, and now we love it. If someone has a crazy idea, let's go for it. We call our songs demos even when they're done, because they're going to change. We just finished one yesterday and there are three versions, different keys, tempos, verses and choruses.

Latenours: How do you decide which version wins?

Lockyer: A lot of it comes down to playing them live. We jam with our drummer and see if we can perform it. If we can't perform it well, that's not a good sign. Our last single, Live Without You, started as a happy song, just I can't live without you, I love you so much. Then we went, this isn't deep enough, and turned it into a breakup song and kept reworking it. Lots of Zoom sessions with Sam Lewis, who wrote it with us. I think he got sick of us by the end. Why do you boys keep changing everything? But that's how we like it.

Latenours: How long does it usually take to get a song out?

Lockyer: Writing is quick. Then the song lives on a file somewhere while we flip it upside down. Some of what we want to release is over five years old. Not because we worked on it for five years, you just forget about it, and then one day it's like, wait, what if we put this out right now? Then releasing and promoting it is a whole world of its own. Some songs will be two months old and some will be five years old, and they all work.

Latenours: You told us you're in the middle of a rebrand. What's changing, and why now?

Lockyer: We haven't released in a while, and we have a lot of new music. We played the two biggest shows we've ever done last year, headlining big stages in front of thousands of people, and after that it was like, okay, what's next? We can't stay here. So we moved to Toronto. Thunder Bay is home and we love it, but we needed to grow. Now we go back and forth between Toronto and LA.

Lockyer: That year changed a lot. We worked with artists we wouldn't normally work with, listened to new music, and our writing started to sound different. And being in the big city, we started missing home, where you can just drive around and be idiots. The new music is the most authentic it's ever been. It sounds like Thunder Bay. It sounds Canadian. It sounds like brothers, and like exactly what we listen to. It's not really a rebrand. It's more finally realizing what our brand is.

Latenours: What does it actually sound like?

Lockyer: It goes back to when we were kids making that Not Over You song on a dinky little setup in our living room. We said, if we're going to be a band, we'll do pop, but with real instruments. Then we travelled, worked with a lot of people and went in a lot of directions. The new stuff is exactly that again: pop where everything is real instruments, really organic, not a lot of electronic craziness. No dates yet, but we're working on it every day, and there are a couple of surprises in there.

Latenours: Where do you like living better, Toronto or LA?

Lockyer: They each have their months. LA in March, because it's Will's birthday and it's perfect. Toronto in August, Charlie's birthday, and Toronto summers are fantastic. December we're in Thunder Bay for Christmas. December is the pretty winter there. February is when it gets brutal and everyone heads south.

Lockyer: We grew up playing hockey with an outdoor rink in the front yard that we had to build ourselves. Dad gave us the supplies and we'd screw it together with frozen hands, then flood it at minus 40 with warm water, thumb over the hose to spread it out. Lift your thumb for five seconds and it freezes.

Latenours: Maple Leafs?

Lockyer: We're definitely Leafs fans, and you've got to want the best for them. Edmonton too. All the Canadian teams, really. Except Ottawa. Our older brother lives in Ottawa, so we probably shouldn't say that, and we've been to Ottawa games. There are just a couple of players there who drive us nuts.

Latenours: What are you most excited to play at Latenours Fest?

Lockyer: Some of the new ones. We'll sneak-peek them and see what people think, and if nobody likes them we'll can it and go back to the old stuff. We also like to let the crowd choose a song between two options, so maybe Role Model is in there. Maybe some Sam Fender. We've never played Sam Fender, but we love him.

Lockyer: We did a college show in LA last year and someone yelled for Baby by Justin Bieber. Charlie said alright, and then the requests kept coming. We did requests for about 30 minutes before remembering we have our own songs.

Latenours: Which of your released songs is the most fun to play live?

Lockyer: Uh-huh. That's the song, it's called Uh-huh. We flew to Toronto right after writing it and tested it at a TMU show, like, guys, we just wrote this. We've played it at basically every show since. Live Without You is a good one too.

Latenours: Give us a one-sentence pitch for anyone on the fence about coming out.

Lockyer: Come out, because it's going to be the best night ever. We don't fully know what to expect either, we'll get up there and figure out what people want, but we love a packed, hot room with the drums going crazy. We'll probably throw out some merch too. The first thing we always do is throw hats, so be in the first row. If we're having fun, hopefully everyone else is.

Latenours: Who got in more trouble growing up?

Lockyer: Charlie got in more trouble at school. Will got in more trouble at home. Sneaky stuff, like stealing cookies.

Latenours: Whose idea was it to move to Toronto?

Lockyer: It was a shared decision, but one of us definitely started it. We've got to get out of here, now.

Latenours: Who controls the playlist in the car?

Will: Charlie. I don't even have music on my phone. Go to my Apple Music and it's two songs from 2016. Why would I need my own music when he's in the house? In the gym I listen to podcasts.

Latenours: Who spends more time on social media?

Charlie: We share an Instagram, and once you see something there it doesn't show you again. So I see everything first. Friends will come over and Will finds out about things that happened two years ago.

Latenours: Who talks more on stage?

Will: Charlie. Usually I'm tuning stuff or making sure things work, and he's keeping the crowd going. Most of the dividing is me going, I need to tune my guitar before this song, think of a joke.

Charlie: It's been like that since we played shows with our dad as kids. I was always the one without an instrument to set up, so I'd be the twelve-year-old going, alright, what's up?

Latenours: Who's more likely to forget the lyrics mid-set?

Will: It's not likely, it's certain. I messed up the national anthem at a full game once. We had a little call-and-response part halfway through and it went wrong, and we ended up doing a 28-second version of a 40-second anthem. Taylor's Version of O Canada. A friend stopped me at school the next day and asked if we forgot the words, and I completely gaslit him. Now I write cues on the set list, and sometimes Charlie counts me in on the words.

Latenours: Who gets more nervous before going on stage?

Will: Me. National anthems, honestly. Every one since that day, I'm pale and shaking and singing it in my head the whole time.

Charlie: I'm nervous right up until I can see the crowd. Even if it's three people, once I do the first hello and see the vibe, I know what game we're playing and the nerves turn into excitement. It could be one dog out there and I'd be like, great, let's play.

Latenours: Who takes longer to get ready?

Will: Fine, me. We were late coming here today because of me.

Charlie: I always have my outfit picked out first. Then he comes to me asking about a shirt I'm already wearing, waits until it's time to go, and says he's got nothing to wear. So I throw him the shirt and grab a new one. It's happened multiple times. We share a wardrobe, same size in everything.

Latenours: Who's more type A?

Charlie: Will lands somewhere and asks where we're going next. Phoenix. He's like, we're going to Phoenix?

Will: I stand by it. I kind of like not knowing what I'm doing tomorrow. Last Christmas we were driving to see family and I didn't know if we were going to Ohio or Ottawa, or that Christmas was in two days. Good surprise, though. And yes, Latenours Fest is in my calendar. Don't worry.